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darth_hamster said that the Skyfall trailer looked good but she'd not actually seen either of Daniel Craig's Bond films I went to the DVD shelf and offered up Casino Royale. She quite enjoyed it and so when I noted that I had Quantum of Solace, and it followed directly on from the events of the first film, we watched that too.
I have to say I remembered Quantum of Solace as, well, not being that good really. But it does benefit from being watched as a double-bill with Casino Royale, perhaps because the ongoing plot from the first film comes to the fore rather more and so diverts from the rather weak and unfocussed plot of the second.
(In fact, this is Quantum of Solace's problem. Even the day after watching it, I have to think hard to answer the question 'what happens in its first half?'. The classic structure of a Bond film has the first half setting up the Big Bad leading up to a confrontation in the second half. But for Quantum of Solace the set-up is provided by Casino Royale; the first half the film is reduced to providing a new aspect of the Big Bad, which works OK in the context of both films taken together but less so standing alone.)
However, on rewatching Casino Royale I noticed a plot hole so huge I'm surprised I've not seen more mention of it. (Indeed, looking online for discussions of plot holes I mainly find complaints about the unlikelihood of the outcome of the card game.) Yes, this is a Bond film, but it is one that tried to reboot the sequence into more contemporary realism, so it's not so easy to arm-wave it away.
The central twist of Casino Royale is that Vesper Lynd has been suborned by Quantum (although the organisation is not named as such until Quantum of Solace). This is clearly a long-running operation and we are shown in Quantum of Solace that the same Quantum agent is running a serial honeypot trap. Lynd's entrapment is thus put in place well in advance. But this makes no sense.
Le Chiffre takes part in the high-stakes card game at the Casino Royale with the aim of winning enough money to cover his losses from his failed plan to short Skyfleet and so be able to repay his African clients. But that plan failed only because of Bond's intervention at Miami Airport. The card game is at best a contingency plan and more likely desperate improvisation. So how come Quantum has arranged well in advance for a conveniently-placed operative accompanying Bond who isn't even a member of the British intelligence services? It's one thing for Mr White to tell M in Quantum of Solace that Quantum 'has people everywhere', but on this evidence HMG would have to be riddled with them.
In the original novel (which I confess I've only read a précis of) the card game is the central plot from the outset, and Lynd is herself an SIS employee, albeit an an administrative rather than operational role. As such, it is credible that she would be targetted by Le Chiffre's paymasters (the Soviet Union in the novel) and that she would know about the card game plan far enough in advance to be able to manoeuvre herself into involvement in it. I suspect that the film's scriptwriters either didn't really think through the implications of the Skyfleet sub-plot (which I suspect was added to ensure a mid-film action sequence) or more likely glossed over the point. But once you notice it, it is pretty fundamental as plot holes go.
darth_hamster said that the Skyfall trailer looked good but she'd not actually seen either of Daniel Craig's Bond films I went to the DVD shelf and offered up Casino Royale. She quite enjoyed it and so when I noted that I had Quantum of Solace, and it followed directly on from the events of the first film, we watched that too.I have to say I remembered Quantum of Solace as, well, not being that good really. But it does benefit from being watched as a double-bill with Casino Royale, perhaps because the ongoing plot from the first film comes to the fore rather more and so diverts from the rather weak and unfocussed plot of the second.
(In fact, this is Quantum of Solace's problem. Even the day after watching it, I have to think hard to answer the question 'what happens in its first half?'. The classic structure of a Bond film has the first half setting up the Big Bad leading up to a confrontation in the second half. But for Quantum of Solace the set-up is provided by Casino Royale; the first half the film is reduced to providing a new aspect of the Big Bad, which works OK in the context of both films taken together but less so standing alone.)
However, on rewatching Casino Royale I noticed a plot hole so huge I'm surprised I've not seen more mention of it. (Indeed, looking online for discussions of plot holes I mainly find complaints about the unlikelihood of the outcome of the card game.) Yes, this is a Bond film, but it is one that tried to reboot the sequence into more contemporary realism, so it's not so easy to arm-wave it away.
The central twist of Casino Royale is that Vesper Lynd has been suborned by Quantum (although the organisation is not named as such until Quantum of Solace). This is clearly a long-running operation and we are shown in Quantum of Solace that the same Quantum agent is running a serial honeypot trap. Lynd's entrapment is thus put in place well in advance. But this makes no sense.
Le Chiffre takes part in the high-stakes card game at the Casino Royale with the aim of winning enough money to cover his losses from his failed plan to short Skyfleet and so be able to repay his African clients. But that plan failed only because of Bond's intervention at Miami Airport. The card game is at best a contingency plan and more likely desperate improvisation. So how come Quantum has arranged well in advance for a conveniently-placed operative accompanying Bond who isn't even a member of the British intelligence services? It's one thing for Mr White to tell M in Quantum of Solace that Quantum 'has people everywhere', but on this evidence HMG would have to be riddled with them.
In the original novel (which I confess I've only read a précis of) the card game is the central plot from the outset, and Lynd is herself an SIS employee, albeit an an administrative rather than operational role. As such, it is credible that she would be targetted by Le Chiffre's paymasters (the Soviet Union in the novel) and that she would know about the card game plan far enough in advance to be able to manoeuvre herself into involvement in it. I suspect that the film's scriptwriters either didn't really think through the implications of the Skyfleet sub-plot (which I suspect was added to ensure a mid-film action sequence) or more likely glossed over the point. But once you notice it, it is pretty fundamental as plot holes go.
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no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 10:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 11:19 am (UTC)Or it is very powerful and has a TARDIS so that it can go back and set up long-lead plots when required, in which case, well, see above.
(Actually, I think
no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 10:45 am (UTC)M: We're going to send Caruthers with the money.
Mitchell: Excuse me, M.
M: Yes, Mitchell.
Mitchell: Caruthers? He... er, drinks, so sending him to a Casino would be a mistake.
M: You're over-stepping your role as my body-guard.
Mitchell: Sorry, Ma'am. I just notice things-
M: That's all right. Who would you suggest then?
Mitchell: There's Vesper Lynd.
M: A woman! You know what Bond's like.
Mitchell: She looks like the back end of a bus.
M: Very well then.
no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 11:22 am (UTC)M probably realises this very quickly, which is why she is so upset with Bond for not bringing Mitchell in alive. As is clear in the rest of the film, she now has difficulty trusting anyone in SIS.
(If so, this is a classic example of what TV Tropes terms Fridge Brilliance.)
no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 12:05 pm (UTC)I did have the experience in real life. One of my 'friends' was passing intelligence to someone who was misusing it. All my friends became 'friends' because you don't know - very unpleasant.
I think that's why we had so many infiltrators on the 1950s: once one's in, then Philby, Burguss, Blunt... etc, because the first in, leaves the door open for the others.
I have the soundtrack to Casino Royale playing now: it makes typing jolly exciting.
no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 06:01 pm (UTC)My problem with the update is that, frankly, Bond didn't come across as that good a Poker player, and, all the skill at playing Poker in the world doesn't actually hedge against poor luck with the cards. Plus, poker 'tells' for the movies have to be exaggerated to such an extent that they're no longer really 'tells' but enormous flashing neon signs.
It rather spoiled the film for me.
no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 08:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-07 09:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2012-10-08 10:06 am (UTC)