major_clanger: Clangers (Royal Mail stamp) (Default)
[personal profile] major_clanger
 There was a scene in Day of the Doctor that was not only lovely in its own right but, I suspect, may be laying the groundwork for resolving an increasingly awkward bit of Who continuity.

Eleven: I could retire and be the curator of this place.
Curator (off screen): You know, I really think you might.
(The Curator, who has Four's voice and is clearly an aged version of Four, enters. Eleven look astonished, gets up and inspects the Curator)
Eleven: I never forget a face.
Curator: I know you don't. And in years to come you might find yourself revisiting a few. But just... the old favourites, eh?
(Eleven smiles in seeming understanding and winks)

And a few lines later:

Curator. If I were you... (laughs, then repeats in an amused tone) If I were you... Perhaps I was you of course. Or perhaps you are me.

The implication is clear. The Curator is the Doctor, but not Four. Rather, he is a future incarnation of the Doctor who has regenerated back into Four's form, and subsequently aged.

Why would the Doctor do this? It's been shown that in voluntary regenerations Time Lords can choose their form (Romana I to Romana II), while Night of the Doctor showed that sufficiently advanced technology can guide a regeneration. The Curator's comment suggests that perhaps as the Doctor goes on he seeks to use such techniques to revisit his past incarnations.

However, we've not yet had a clear get-out of the '12 regenerations' rule. But that has been evaded before (e.g. by the Master) and it's entirely possible - indeed, necessary, if the show is to continue, that the Doctor will get around it; Capaldi isn't going to play Twelve for ever. I am guessing that before too long (maybe even in the Christmas Special, as this seems to deal with the Doctor's fate) we will see some plot development that has the effect of giving the Doctor a new set of regenerations. It might even be mentioned that, for some arm-waved reason, the Doctor may now be able to choose his form, or at least to choose to regenerate into the form of a previous incarnation. 

Date: 2013-11-25 10:18 am (UTC)
smofbabe: (propellor)
From: [personal profile] smofbabe
Maybe the witches of Endor Sisterhood of Karn will start to bottle their "you can choose your regeneration form" potion from the mini-episode "Night of the Doctor"
Edited Date: 2013-11-25 10:18 am (UTC)

Date: 2013-11-24 03:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ffutures.livejournal.com
That would work for me. They really need a way out that isn't simply "oh, some Time Lords can regenerate indefinitely."

The return of Galifrey (provided it doesn't mess up The End of Time) ought to be interesting. My guess, the "common" Time Lords get saved, the High Council doesn't.

Date: 2013-11-25 05:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] daveon.livejournal.com
As read elsewhere, getting wind of what the Doctor was about to do with the moment, Rassilon and the High council buggered into their own time locked area, probably with the Capitol itself. I'm assuming Arcadia becomes the new Capitol if/when he finds things. Although, that would bugger up the Eye of Harmony and other stuff. Rebuilding that stuff would be tricky... unless the Doctor happened to know where the Hand of Omega was hidden...

Hmmm....

Date: 2013-11-24 03:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] waistcoatmark.livejournal.com
Bear in mind capaldi will be the 13th regeneration (twelfth doctor, as the war doctor doesn't count). I suspect Xmas special will cover this point, probably at trenzelore

Although tenant did regenerate into himself at one point, so technically smith is already the 13th regeneration. And that all assumes Hartnell was number 1.

Date: 2013-11-25 01:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unwholesome-fen.livejournal.com
Fencepost problem. 13th incarnation, i.e. result of 12th regeneration, surely?

Date: 2013-11-24 03:24 pm (UTC)
andrewducker: (Default)
From: [personal profile] andrewducker
The Master was offered more regenerations at one point too (in The Five Doctors), so it's clearly possible, with the right technology.

Date: 2013-11-24 06:23 pm (UTC)
ext_550458: (TARDIS)
From: [identity profile] strange-complex.livejournal.com
Indeed, and the Master specifically is offered those extra regenerations by the Time Lords, whom the Doctor is clearly about to go off looking for, now that future-Doctor-Curator Tom has told him they were saved after all. If we're to take Capaldi as the Thirteenth Doctor (as I think we must), that is going to be his arc - finding and unfreezing Gallifrey, and then getting given a whole bunch of new regenerations as a reward. Maybe even one for each of the 2.47 billion children he has saved? Seems pretty fair to me. :-)

Date: 2013-11-24 03:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mmcirvin.livejournal.com
The Valeyard was actually mentioned in a recent episode. Given the John Hurt Doctor and various bits of dialogue, one could make a case that Matt Smith's regeneration into Capaldi is the one the Valeyard was yanked out of. I'm wondering if there's going to be some reference to that.

Date: 2013-11-24 04:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cartesiandaemon.livejournal.com
Ooh, good explanation.

It might even be mentioned that, for some arm-waved reason, the Doctor may now be able to choose his form, or at least to choose to regenerate into the form of a previous incarnation.

Or maybe, regenerating into a previous incarnation some of the time is one of the limits of the process, not one of the perks; that would explain why he chooses that other than "introspection".

Date: 2013-11-24 04:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] makyo.livejournal.com
However, we've not yet had a clear get-out of the '12 regenerations' rule. But that has been evaded before (e.g. by the Master)
I'd put it more strongly than that - the rule was introduced specifically in order to be broken. Before The Deadly Assassin there had been no suggestion that Time Lords have a finite number of lives, and pretty much exactly the first time we hear about it we learn that the Master has found a way to circumvent it. Indeed, that's the main plot of the story - all that business with the presidential assassination is just a distraction to enable the Master to get access to the Eye of Harmony in order to get some more lives. And the next time we see him is in The Keeper of Traken, where he's attempting something very similar with another big energy source.

Date: 2013-11-24 06:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] parrot-knight.livejournal.com
Moffat has been suggesting recently that Tennant's Doctor regenerates twice and that Smith's Doctor is the result of the twelfth regeneration. Capaldi's Doctor therefore might be the first of a new cycle, or some alternative development.

Date: 2013-11-24 07:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davidwake.livejournal.com
We are going for the 12 regenerations means 13 incarnations, aren't we? Because we've had twelve versions now.

Date: 2013-11-25 10:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davidwake.livejournal.com
We clearly need a new numbering strategy.

May I suggest Greek letters: so classic Who is 'alpha' to 'eta', McGann is 'theta' (although potentially confusing as Tom Baker's Doctor had a 'theta' nickname), Hurt is just a small 'iota', which is easy to remember, and new-Who is 'kappa', 'lambda' and 'mu'. Capaldi will the 'nu' Doctor. Assuming we get through another 11 for the next 50 years, the 100th Anniversary will see the introduction of 'omega' and a very neat loop back to the first anniversary special, "The Three Doctors".

Date: 2013-11-25 11:21 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pauldormer.livejournal.com
Just seen a comment on Cix from someone called systemcv about The Night of the Doctor:


There is a theory that, as The Doctor actually died this time without regenerating (and was apparently dead for quite some time - however long it took the Sisterhood to recover his body from the wreckage and then bring him back to life), all the rules have changed (again).

So, The War Doctor could actually be the first of a new set of 12 regenerations, which would make Matt Smith number 4 and Peter Capaldi number 5.

Date: 2013-11-25 01:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] unwholesome-fen.livejournal.com
See also the Brain of Morbius, I suppose - presumably whatever effects are deemed convenient can be ascribed to the elixir.

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