LiveJournal vs PAPA: Mailcomms at 11

[major_clanger]

I've just written my resignation mailing to PAPA.

I'm not a PAPA member of particularly long standing - I only joined two years ago and have contributed to perhaps a dozen mailings. Some of my submissions have been long and involved, some short minac, but until the middle of this year I took my membership fairly seriously and tried to produce at least some sort of mailing.

Then I joined LiveJournal. And missed a mailing.

Well, I was busy. And stressed. Really busy and stressed.

Then I realised that another mailing deadline was coming up. And that I had nothing prepared. And that I didn't feel the urge to have do a mailing. That itch had already been scratched, and I had a pretty good idea of where the scratching had come from. As I said in my final mailing:

Somehow it's important to me to at least have the option of people responding to my thoughts and views. At the same time I like to be able to do this in a controlled community of some sort, so that if necessary I can discuss aspects of my life that perhaps I'd feel uncomfortable exposing to completely public display. PAPA has filled this need, but I admit that the two-month delay in getting any feedback is less than ideal. With LJ though, I can post an entry to my restricted Friends group and potentially have comments within minutes or hours.

And that's the point. Somehow LJ fills the niche that was previously occupied by PAPA, and does so more quickly.

So there you have it, the phosphor screen kicking out the printed page. Of course, theres more to it than that; many LJ'ers happily keep up APAs as well, and I'd be the last to suggest that LJ has somehow made APAs obsolete. But in my own personal case, it looks like LJ does a good part of what I joined an APA for, and does it in a way more to my liking.

Of course, LJ doesn't do everything I got up to in PAPA. It's not suited for long articles, for instance. But perhaps this will encourage me to go the extra mile and finally do my own fanzine, something I have been wondering about but putting off for some time. My APA activity is splitting in two in a manner oddly reminiscent of the Best Dramatic Presentation Hugo*; short form to LiveJournal, Long Form to the second incarnation of The Eccentricity Vector.

Life moves on. We change. Goodbye PAPA, you were fun. But now I'm major_clanger.

MC

*This comment should in no way be taken as an indication of the quality of my fanwriting, just to forestall any derisive snorting out there.

Comments

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

I disagree that LJ isn't suitable for long articles - as evidenced by, well, my longer articles.

I always said that LJ was like a realtime APA, though. And I'll be glad to see another fanzine on the scene.

Apa versus LJ

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

I disagree that LJ isn't suitable for long articles - as evidenced by, well, my longer articles.

My understanding has been that one can do what one likes with LJ and I've seen a fair number of long articles around. On the other hand, I've also noticed that the default option seems to be something short, which tends to get better responses.

I always said that LJ was like a realtime APA, though.

But there I would have to disagree with you. In so far as LJ reminds me of an apa, it tends to remind me of the kind of apa I have left over the years. LJ's immediacy is in some ways a good thing, but my experience of it so far is that if one is seeking a long, reasoned response its very immediacy can count against that. I notice that I often either don't respond to entries or have to come back to them later, when I've thought through my response ... or don't get back to them because I've had to stop and sort through my response and have missed the moment.

I know what I need from an apa now, and it is a sustained discussion (which is why I prefer monthly apas - I'm a member of three and contribute to all three most months; indeed, in two of them I've made regular contributions for almost two years without a break).

For me, LJ seems to be more about hanging out by the water cooler two or three times a day, which is enjoyable as I don't see much conversational action around here during the day, and it's good to be in touch with people across the world. At the same time, I sometimes feel as though I'm watching a world which I have no real access to, something like a real-time soap, but as that seems to be my basic take on life, I try not to worry abou that. I suspect my natural inclination is to be an LJ columnist, writing for myself and it's jolly nice if someone likes what I write enough to comment but I won't hold my breath, just in case they don't.

M.

Re: Apa versus LJ

[hawkida.livejournal.com]

I generally get responses to my longer pieces as well. Often the responses go "Put this in a real fanzine".

I don't think I'm getting much, if any, more in terms of response from printed articles, to be honest.

Re: Apa versus LJ

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

I don't generally feel I get much response unless the small furry one is doing something amusing, or another spider has committed suicide in the bath in a new and inventive way. I think I'm pretty much writing the longer stuff for my own entertainment, but as that seems to have been the default for the last twenty-odd years, I'm not sure why I think it's going to change now.

M.

Re: Apa versus LJ

[purplecthulhu.livejournal.com]

I think I have to Me Too Maureen on this. I don't think LJ usually has the persistance for long andf serious exchanges which is something I have liked about APAs.

Of course these exchanges are not guaranteed in an APA, and I think PAPA has had less of this of late than it once had. But then my current issue of PAPA seems to have been lost in the post (possibly twice!) so I'm not up to date.

I'll be sad to see MC leave, but I can understand.

Re: Apa versus LJ

[major-clanger.livejournal.com]

I suppose this depends on what your definition of a 'long article' is; for me, I would feel that the equivalent of about a page of A4 is the most I would post to LJ in one go. LJ has a very short reply half-life; if someone hasn't commented on a post within 24 hours, then frankly they're not very likely to do so. As such, any post that takes more than a few hours to frame a decent response to probably won't get one.

On a related matter, what do people think is the point at which one should lj-cut? I tend to go for the first paragraph if the whole post is more than about twenty lines or so, but I see a lot of variation.

MC

Re: Apa versus LJ

[fishlifter.livejournal.com]

if someone hasn't commented on a post within 24 hours, then frankly they're not very likely to do so

Ooh no. Some of us get at our web access and email every three or four days. It means a lot of back-tracking, but it's nearly always worth doing that.

And as regards your earlier comment: do the fanzine. Go on go on you know you want to...

Re: Apa versus LJ

[maureenkspeller.livejournal.com]

I suppose this depends on what your definition of a 'long article' is; for me, I would feel that the equivalent of about a page of A4 is the most I would post to LJ in one go.


Bearing in mind that 1,500-2,000 words seems short to me, we probably have different views about this. It's a rare month when I don't write 40+ sides of apa contributions; sometimes it's more. I was hoping that in LJ I'd be able to put up some of the more general material I write, the stuff that doesn't really belong in the topic-specific apas I contribute to, but I think it's going to end up making more sense to get my new website activated and sorted out, and put things there, with links. Not what I wanted, but I don't see much point in flogging deceased equines.

On a related matter, what do people think is the point at which one should lj-cut? I tend to go for the first paragraph if the whole post is more than about twenty lines or so, but I see a lot of variation.

I also see a lot of variation, quite often from people who have been previously sighted making pronouncements about such matters. I generally try to cut within a paragraph, unless I know it's going to be a short post.

(And I'd love it if people stuck their photos and suchlike behind cuts as some of the bigger ones throw my monitor out of whack and it's getting very annoying. I can't figure out who's causing it, may even be two or three people who don't realise they're doing it, but it bugs me.)

M.

livejournals and apas

[owlrigh.livejournal.com]

Mmm. I went through something like this when I started devoting more time to my livejournal. I still am in one APA, and would be in another if I had the money -- but for the most part I don't have anything to say in them anymore. I still like to get other people's contributions and write up responses to those, but stuff about myself has fallen to the wayside. These are the more personal types of APAs, I guess. When it comes to writing articles I always didn't do too well -- me and articles! Ha.

I must admit that the added bonus of a livejournal is the instant feedback that you get, instead of waiting a couple of months (or however long) for it.

[purpletigron.livejournal.com]

ObAOL to you all, really.

ObAOL

[green-amber.livejournal.com]

Pardon?

Count me for another person for whom LJ clearly does exactly what I want an apa to do ie provide quick response, often funny, keep up with the gossip about people I know, introduce me to new people I might want to know.

I don't like writing long articles anyway and when I do no one ever writes back to them anyway, whether in apas, fanzines or LJ!

So I dropped out of TWP in favour of LJ almost without noticing it. It was that simple.

Ah-ha...

[redfruit.livejournal.com]

I don't know if you'll remember/know me, but I've posted as Nukapai in PAPA for a litle while now. *waves*

I understand why you felt the need to leave. It's no point staying out of 'duty', if the place that PAPA filled for you is now filled by something else.

I'm surprised no-one has caught on the most OBVIOUS difference between APA's and Live Journal: DEADLINE! That's one of the big reasons for my joining PAPA (and TWP); I write profusely (almost daily), but to create a coherent whole, or even to attempt some fiction....I need a deadline. The comments from APA's are an added bonus, but the main reason I joined was to teach myself how to write something to a deadline and stick with it. I was also only recently introduced to 'fandom' and found it such a comfortable place to be, after having felt 'out of place' for all my life. Whether you like it or not, writing online isn't writing for quite such a selected audience...and writing for an APA seemed just so much more comfortable a place to experiment.

Plus, in an APA, I am able to work with printed graphics rather than online (lower DPI) graphics.

I've been keeping an online diary for 3 years and even have a LiveJournal account (which, I've got to say, is not really used a lot). APA's - in my case - fulfill a different need, so I am happy to be involved in them as well as online writing.