major_clanger: Clangers (Royal Mail stamp) (LOM Puppets)
[personal profile] major_clanger
First thoughts: that was either very clever, or a monumental have-your-cake-and-eat-it cop-out.

Further thoughts: this proves my pet theory - to quote my original post:

The best explanation for Sam Tyler's experience is not that it is 1973, or 2006, but some far-distant future, or at least a date the other side of the Singularity. Sam was in a simulation of 2006, but somehow he has been pasted into a simulation of 1973, perhaps even overwriting an alternative Sam Tyler who was resident in that simulation. But somehow a link between the two simulations remains, hence the leakage of information (Sam's 'voices') from one into the other.

This, at least, is the only explanation of how Sam can return to 2006, and then find himself again in 1973. When the 2006 Sam wakes up, he remembers the experiences of the 1973 version; when the 2006 Sam kills himself, only the 1973 version remains for the consciousness thread to continue running in. And the Test Card girl breaking the fourth wall at the very end: yes, 1973 is (and 2006 was) a simulation, and, like the Agents in The Matrix, there are entities within it that know this.

Date: 2007-04-11 09:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bookzombie.livejournal.com
I think it was a pretty clever ending. Let's be honest, there is nothing they could have done that would have satisfied everyone.

Not sure there was any objective evidence to support your pet theory (did Sam really wake up in 2006 or was that another hallucination?), though I agree that there doesn't seem to be any solid evidence for the existence of Sam's 1973 either. If I had been the 'awoken' Sam I would be checking police files for any record of Gene Hunt and the rest of the Keystone Kops!

Date: 2007-04-11 11:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lapswood.livejournal.com
Do like most of your theory. I'm still trying to fit in the significance of Sam seeing his own tombstone in the graveyard scene in 1973. As I didn't tape it. do you recall the dates inscribed on that "Sam Tyler" Tombstone?

Date: 2007-04-11 02:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drasecretcampus.livejournal.com
Would they really have all their tombstones in a row? Unless they'd reserved their plots in advance? I thinks the dates were various ones in the 1860s.

I was sure why he was convinced, albeit briefly, by papers signed by Morgan. Surely they'd just be part of what he'd hallucinated.

Date: 2007-04-11 04:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] flick.livejournal.com
I can't remember the exact dates. I think that the adults were about 1860's and the kid about 1980's, maybe? 1800's, anyway. Wouldn't be that unusual to have a family plot reserved. It *would* be unusual to have shortened names like Vic and Sam on them, though.

Date: 2007-04-11 04:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drasecretcampus.livejournal.com
I would have assumed that the grave stones would cover two or more of them, as the ones in the nearest cemetary to me do "John Smith, Also Jane Smith, loving wife of..." rather than them getting one each. Again, it need not have served as proof positive to Sam, and indeed clearly wasn't.

Date: 2007-04-11 08:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mgspiller.livejournal.com
Having done a bit of genealogy in my time I can confirm you are quite correct, the usual arrangement is a family plot of one grave with anything between 2 & 6 family members interred. It is not too unusual to find family in neighbouring or nearby plots but that would normally be brothers or cousins with whole families in each plot rather than individual people.

I was in the pub last night & have just watched it on video on demand on Virgin. It would be fairly straight-forward to go back & check the dates but like Flick said the parents were 1810 - 1840 ish & the son 1830 - 1860 ish.

I second Bookzombie's feeling that I would have been digging through all the archives I could find.

Date: 2007-04-11 08:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] drasecretcampus.livejournal.com
More like parents 1808/1810 ish to 1860ish, the Sam grave about twenty years later. None of these dead people had middle names either. It screams hallucination to me - but then once you start hallucinating no amount of archive work is going to prove things one way or another.

Date: 2007-04-11 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mgspiller.livejournal.com
True enough I suppose, though I wouldn't be able to resist the temptation anyway.

Date: 2007-04-11 09:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mgspiller.livejournal.com
To answer Lapswood above, according to Frank Morgan, that was the gravestone (along with the other 2) that had been used as inspiration for his fake ID.
For full geek points, his Williams parents were born in 1917 & 1919 & died in 1950 while the Tylers are as follows:
Vic Tyler 1802 - 1963, Ruth Tyler 1812 - 1870, Sam Tyler 1831 - 1881.

... shoot me now :-)

Date: 2007-04-12 10:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lapswood.livejournal.com
You've lost a geek point as you've said that Vic Tyler has lived for 161 years and only missed meeting Our Hero himself by 10 years!

Date: 2007-04-12 07:35 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
Morgan's story was full of holes. I can't believe that the police would construct fake identities by trawling randomly through the graveyards near to where the parents of their pet agent are buried. Even in 1973. Also, Sam could so easily have said "hang on, I've met my parents, under circumstances that would have been recorded in easily accessible case files."

Ultimately, we got a happy ending from the POV of the main characters, and a twist that will keep us speculating happily for ever. Everyone a winner!
- Ben J

Date: 2007-04-12 04:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] tobesv.livejournal.com
Its either the simulation theory or the 2006 segment was an hallucination. I think its a bit extreme to run off a roof either way. How did he know he'd get back to 1973? Very nice ending with the girl though, makes me think all of it is just a simulation she was running.

So yeah, overall I agree with your simulation theory.

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