major_clanger: Clangers (Royal Mail stamp) (Default)
[personal profile] major_clanger
The announcement of the discovery of a planet orbiting Proxima Centauri is absolutely fascinating; we finally have a (roughly) Earth-size world orbiting in the (notionally) habitable zone of a (by astronomical standards) close star. There's been a lot of speculation about what Proxima b might be like, but one description I saw didn't quite ring true: the picture one article painted of Proxima Centauri, a relatively dim red dwarf, hanging in the sky like a dull glowing ember. It's a faint star, true, but it's still a star, so how bright would it seem from Proxima b?

To start, some basic data.

Proxima Centauri is visual magnitude 11.13 and is 4.25 light years away. Its diameter is 0.141 x that of the Sun.

Proxima b orbits at 0.0485 astronomical units.

1 light year = 63,241 AU, so Proxima b is closer to Proxima Centauri than we are by a factor of

(4.25 x 63,241) / 0.0485 = 5,541,737, or 5.54 x 106

This means that Proxima Centauri's brightness from Proxima b, as compared to Earth, will be increased by this factor squared

= 3.07 x 1013 times brighter

Converting that to stellar magnitudes gives us

2.5 log (3.07 x 1013) = 33.72 magnitudes brighter

So, the visual magnitude of Proxima Centauri from Proxima b would be

11.13 - 33.72 = -22.59

Now, the apparent visual magnitude of the Sun is -26.7, so in comparison to the Sun, this is

-26.7 - (-22.59) = -4.11 magnitudes fainter

That corresponds in actual brightness ratio to

10(-4.11 / 2.5) = 0.0226 = 1/44

So from Proxima b, Proxima Centauri would look 44 times less bright than the Sun does from Earth.

At first, that might seem surprising; after all, isn't Proxima b meant to be in Proxima Centauri's habitable zone? Surely that means that it ought to be getting the roughly the same energy from Proxima Centauri as we get from the Sun? Well, it does - but far more of it is in infra-red rather than visible, because Proxima Centauri is an M6 class red dwarf with a surface temperature of about 3,000K, whereas the sun is a G2 yellow dwarf with a surface temperature of 6,000K. Standing on the surface of Proxima b in daylight would feel as warm as standing in daylight does on Earth.

It wouldn't even look much darker. A factor of 44 times sounds a lot, but that corresponds to a dull overcast on Earth. Day on Proxima b would still look like day, although a bit odd.

But back to the question of how bright Proxima Centauri would look. It is much smaller than the Sun, but Proxima b is proportionately even closer to it than we are to the Sun. The ratio in apparent diameter is

0.141 / 0.0485 = 2.9

- Proxima Centauri is nearly three times larger in angular diameter in the sky than the Sun is for us. That means it occupies the square of that in terms of area of the sky

2.92 = 8.45 times the area of the Sun

This means that the brightness of Proxima Centauri is not only 1/44th that of the Sun in our sky, but is spread over 8.45 times the area, so the apparent surface brightness is reduced even further

44 x 8.45 = 372 times less bright per area of sky

That, mind you, is still very bright. To put it in perspective, the full moon is 14 magnitudes less bright than the Sun, or about 400,000 times. In terms of apparent intensity, Proxima Centauri as seen from Proxima b would still be a thousand times brighter-looking than the full Moon seems. Bearing in mind that you would see it in a rather dimmer sky, I suspect it would look to all intents and purposes as bright as the Sun does from Earth.

This isn't surprising. 3,000K is still way past red-hot by normal standards. In fact, heat something to that temperature and it will be white-hot to the naked eye. 3,000K is about the temperature of the filament of an incandescent light bulb, the light from which looks white unless you are comparing it to sunlight (when, as photographers know, it looks yellowish by comparison).

So, Proxima b won't have a 'glowing ember' in the sky. It will have a sun that would look at first glance like our own. It won't be as intense - in fact, I'd hazard a guess that you could probably look straight at it without discomfort - and it would be noticeably bigger in the sky, but it would still seem like a big white-hot thing.

Photography will be a pain, though. What would be a picture at f/16 on a sunny day on Earth will have to be taken at about f/2 on Proxima b - and remember to set your camera to 'indoor tungsten' light temperature.

Date: 2016-08-26 08:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ffutures.livejournal.com
It's amazing how these calculations work out sometimes. When I was writing my Weinbaum RPG I wanted to know the brightness of the sun on Pluto, since Weinbaum described it as being like a moonlit night. Except that the maths really didn't support that, and I ended having to hand-wave it away:

Pluto's daylight actually ranges from two hundred to six hundred times brighter than moonlight on Earth, comparable to a badly overcast day on Earth or the lighting in an average home. It generally appears to be much darker because the Sun is perceived as a bright star, there is no atmospheric scattering of light, shadows are completely dark, and most of the surface materials absorb light with minimal reflections.

Date: 2016-08-27 10:59 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] major-clanger.livejournal.com
Whereas of course in reality most of Pluto's surface is icy, and thus very bright.

Unless of course you're standing in whatever Cthulhu Regio is made of.

(Snoozing Shoggoths, presumably).

Date: 2016-08-27 02:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] a-cubed.livejournal.com
Really nice analysis. I love the final piece about photography settings. That gives a really useful real world distinction with a flavour of humour. You should try to work that into a story at some point.

Date: 2016-08-27 09:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] history-monk.livejournal.com
Good stuff!

Date: 2016-08-27 09:50 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davidwake.livejournal.com
This is an excellent addition to last night's discussions.

Can you mock up a picture: Earth daytime, Earth moonlight and Proximity's daytime?

There's an artist's impression on the Wikipedia entry, but that 'sun' looks the same size as ours. There's a comparison further down, so I guess that does the trick.

What difference does Alpha Centauri A and B make to all this? Are they bright enough to make a sunny day? One thought, if Proximity is tidally locked, then Alpha Centauri A and B will rise and fall every 11 days.

Date: 2016-08-27 10:32 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] major-clanger.livejournal.com
Proxima Centauri is about 0.21 light years from Alpha Centauri, which is close-by in stellar terms but a long way for a companion star (the jury is still out on whether Proxima Centauri is in orbit around Alpha Centauri AB or just formed with them and is thus on a similar path through space).

From Earth, at a distance of 4.37 light years, Alpha Centauri A has a magnitude of 0.01 and Alpha Centauri B a magnitude of 1.33. The brightness increase from Proxima Centauri will be

2.5 log (4.37 / 0.21)2 = 6.6 magnitudes

So, Alpha Centauri A would be Mag -6.6 and Alpha Centauri B would be Mag -5.3. That's about three times brighter and about half as bright again than Venus at its brightest respectively.

From Proxima Centauri, the maximum separation of Alpha Centauri A and B would be about 0.15 degrees at most. Much of the time they would probably look like one bright star perhaps four times brighter than Venus. In other words, not enough to affect how bright daylight seemed on Proxima b.

Date: 2016-08-27 10:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davidwake.livejournal.com
With Proxima being bigger, but fainter, would you see Alpha Centauri A and B during the day? Would you see other stars in the sky?

Of course, dependent upon any atmosphere, which I'd have thought likely given that Proximity is slightly bigger than the Earth. If Proxima gives a dull daylight day, then on a dull day, it would be very gloomy.

Date: 2016-08-27 10:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] major-clanger.livejournal.com
Probably, yes. At its brightest, you can see Venus during the day if you know where to look. In a dimmer sky, I'd expect Alpha Centauri A/B to be very obvious.

In terms of the sky, this is my guess at Earth (top) and Proxima B. It's hard to do a real comparison as of course your eyes would adjust in dimmer light, but it would seem dimmer and yellower.

SECC1.jpg

SECC2.jpg

Date: 2016-08-27 11:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] davidwake.livejournal.com
So, it's sort of...

earth and proximity

Date: 2016-08-27 12:36 pm (UTC)

Date: 2016-08-27 12:54 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] motodraconis.livejournal.com
Brilliant - literally! The descriptions and comparisons really help to paint a picture in my imagination - the calcs... perhaps less so. :)

Image (https://www.flickr.com/gp/motodraconis/01Y0n8)

Profile

major_clanger: Clangers (Royal Mail stamp) (Default)
Simon Bradshaw

June 2017

S M T W T F S
    12 3
45678910
11121314151617
18192021222324
252627282930 

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Jun. 26th, 2017 03:29 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios